In this edition of one-on-one, Abhishek Pandey, Editor of Urban Update, has a candid conversation with Normunds Popens, Deputy Director General, Directorate-General for Regional and Urban Policy, European Commission who is currently in charge of overseeing the implementation of strategic investment programmes to promote competitiveness, job creation and sustainability in EU member states and candidate countries as well as relations with third countries.
The first EU-India Urban Forum was organised in September 2019, and the second urban forum in May 2021. Given that the world has witnessed a global pandemic, how has the forum continued its work, and what impact has it been trying to make in sustainable urbanisation?
First, let me say that I’m very happy to be in Delhi. Today is my first time participating in this Urban Forum between India and the EU in New Delhi. Let me start by saying that in the European Union, we pay particular attention to the development of all our territories, particularly the urban areas. In that context, the European Green Deal is our growth strategy and accelerating the twin green and digital transition is currently our most important goal. And in that context, we ensure that our urban authorities and cities are full participants in this transition process. We try to make it a win-win situation with all territories so that they can benefit from the funding we provide with regional policy programs all over Europe and knowledge. India is a very important and good partner for the European Union, and we started our cooperation on urban matters many years ago. We are happy to see a lot of interest both on the EU side and the Indian side, not just between governments and authorities but also between cities. We have promoted this cooperation at different levels. So, at our level, we discuss what needs to be done to support our cities better, as I said, with investment and knowledge so cities can participate in global processes. Within India, we have also been funding city twinnings wherein Indian and European cities come together and learn from each other, and then see the best way forward. This is needed globally (not just in India or Europe) to achieve the Green Deal objectives together. We must ensure that our cities participate and are equipped with the knowledge and funding tools. We try to do this in our cooperation between India and the EU.
In 2017, the European Union and India partnered on Smart and Sustainable Urbanisation. What is the extent of the EU’s intervention and how are the roles and duties distributed among the partners? And since you have been a career diplomat, what has been your experience in dealing with national governments?
Well, first of all, let me say that we are very, very impressed and happy about the cooperation with the Ministry of Housing and Urban Affairs [in India]. The EU delegation to India has been working daily with the ministry on our partnership. I think it contains very important actions on promoting city-to-city cooperation and discussing global Issues. One of those issues is to see how at the G20 level, we can also discuss and better promote urban cooperation between different countries worldwide.
In the EU, as you know, the European Commission is working very closely with its member states on urban policy. For example, we see this under the ‘Urban Agenda for the EU’, established by the Pact of Amsterdam in 2016. And this shows that the EU works with the national governments and city authorities in partnerships. This is, we believe, the best way to work together at all levels of governance. And this is something we also promote in our work with India in this partnership where the ministry, together with the local authorities and cities, come together and agree on necessary actions. We have very good cooperation between the EU, member states and European cities. As a region, we are leading the work on coordination of this integrated sustainable urban development. But there are many thematic initiatives, for instance, smart and sustainable cities, that you mentioned; these are some of the few concepts that we are promoting within the European Union. We also have important missions now, smart city mission, and climate adaptation missions where EU cities will work with us to define concrete actions needed to achieve climate-neutral cities to adapt to climate change. There are many other initiatives on social inclusion like urban mobility. And this is what we try to promote and help cities build their capacity. Today (during the 3rd India EU Urban Forum), in discussion with Indian cities and representatives, I understand that the key issue is how to build the capacity of the urban authorities to involve all the citizens, design the right strategies and then design the right projects that can be implemented because there’s a lot of funding there.
Talking about funding mechanisms in smart cities, One of the key points under the partnership on smart and sustainable urbanisation is that the EU and India will try to involve European businesses in smart and sustainable urbanisation. How are you going to make it possible?
If we want to achieve results, the key to success is dialogue and partnership between different actors. We believe that the national, regional, and local governments must work with businesses, universities, and stakeholders that represent citizens. Because only then you can define the urban strategy, which includes all necessary problems and solutions to these problems. This is why I believe that businesses should also be involved in this development. When it comes to innovation, large enterprises have to play their role, so we have developed this concept of ‘Smart Specialisation Strategy’ to support innovation and research in enterprises. We are also promoting this concept together with your ministry (Indian) to make sure that innovative solutions are found together with the involvement of different stakeholders. Today I was informed that in India, you have a lot of programmes and missions, and we have a lot of programmes on the EU side as well. Hence, our job is to link these different possibilities on both sides, and a lot is about knowledge sharing. Let’s not forget that finding solutions to different problems is not always easy. Sometimes they are found on the EU side, and sometimes on the Indian side, so we have to learn from each other.
How can we promote investment in sustainable urbanisation? And what funding opportunities are available for municipalities to implement projects that can cut emissions and promote sustainability and inclusivity?
I think the funding is there, but what is important is to target this funding. Sometimes, the urban authority must have the necessary capacity, particularly in small and medium-sized cities. On the other hand, metropolitan areas are quite developed. They have big authorities that can develop projects with their own funding. In the EU, we want to focus more on these intermediary towns, or what we call small and medium-sized cities, because they need the knowledge and capacity to access funding and to design the right strategy to do the right projects. As I said, in the future, we want to pay more and more attention to urban functional areas. Today I also learnt that in some Indian cities, you move forward by linking urban to rural areas to find common solutions because we shouldn’t isolate different territories. We have a lot of concepts there, and we want to share them and learn from both sides, and then the funding will follow.
By 2050, around 68 per cent of the world’s population will be living in cities, and when more people come to cities, they will require more resources and housing. How can cities of tomorrow accommodate such a large population, and what steps can be taken to ensure comfortable and equitable living?
Well, urbanisation and the problems linked to sprawl are global. It is also true that cities are responsible for CO2 emissions, and climate change will only grow. We are working on the global agenda of the United Nations, for example, to share the knowledge to see what can be done. For me, the answer, of course, is an integrated approach to urban planning. So when you design urban regeneration projects or build new habitations for citizens, you have to think about the urban strategies so that you don’t miss any angle from the beginning. It’s indeed a lot about the greening of cities, making them climate adaptable and environment friendly. But let’s not forget that they have to be inclusive as well. They need to have dialogue with citizens to see which way to go. I don’t think we have one recipe that fits every city’s answers because cities are different, have different problems, and have different advantages. So, we want to build on those advantages through this sustainable urban integrated strategy approach. And we have to succeed in this because it is not just about one country; it is about the world. It is about fundamentally shifting the way we think, not just in urban areas but globally.
If cities want to reduce their emissions, then they have to focus on urban mobility. In this regard, many states in India are adopting electric vehicles (EVs) and EV policies to reduce dependence on fossil fuels. What is the better way for the transport sector to shift to clean energy while maintaining accessibility and affordability? In this regard, please shed some light on EU Green Deal and how it can inspire other nations to chart their path of development.
The transport sector is the one sector that makes most of the CO2 emissions not just in Europe but in the world, particularly in dense urban areas. Since we have many problems with urban mobility, we have made it one of the priorities for the EU, which is supported through our European programmes. We aim to find the right solutions and share them globally. It’s true that we have to shift away from fossil fuels and cars which run on diesel to electric cars. We also have to develop more and more multimodal transport connections within urban areas, and we are supporting a lot of projects like that in the EU and also in India, through European Investment Bank (EIB), for example. But no one recipe fits all. One needs to look at it in the context of possibilities; if you want to develop electric cars, you have to develop the proper infrastructure to make them accessible. In the EU, we are prioritising this work not just in the cohesion policy but also in the recovery plan, the resilience plan and also in different industrial policies. Recently, we also published the communication on the clean tech industries on ‘Net Zero’ industries, where particular attention will be paid to promoting alternative sources of energy. You mentioned electric cars, I would mention hydrogen, green hydrogen and also many other solutions which exist in the world.
How can the EU Green Deal inspire other nations?
It is an inspiring deal because we have very concrete objectives set at the EU level, and the national governments have made their contributions. Some countries even have more ambitious goals than the EU. We want to be climate neutral by 2050, and in some cases even earlier, but we also know that the right support tools need to be designed to achieve that. Here, I would like to mention our Just Transition Fund, which we will be implementing for the first time. That’s again a good way to find out which territories will not be able to do this transition themselves, and then we can help them to go through this transition as it is not easy either in Europe or India. But we have to do it because, as I said today in my speech in the Forum, If we don’t do this, then I’m afraid in 50 years, some of the European population will be living underwater. We just discussed this under the G7 urban summit with ministers, that in 50 years, some of the European cities might have big problems because there will be not enough land and flooding will be a big problem. So it’s inevitable, and I do hope that European Green Deal objectives inspire everyone.
So this forum is being held in the backdrop of the EU Global Gateway via team Europe approach. It aims to bring transformational changes in five key sectors: digital, climate and clean energy, transport, health, education and research. Is there any action plan ready for this?
Well, it’s part of our action, at least with India, which will cover 2023 and 2024. It is built on the principle of continuity since we had action plans before, so we’re trying to see what we can do to progress further. And this team Europe approach is very good. We are working with member states, and we also see that in India, member states are joining our efforts. So, it’s not just a commission and our representatives that we’re working with. For example, we are also working with a French agency. So, this is the way forward. It’s about cooperation and doing something concrete. Similarly, digitalisation is also important, but it needs to be placed in the context of territorial development and urban development in particular. It needs to be a priority for everyone. This Global Gateway is something which we hope will visibly show how the EU contributes to finding solutions to global problems.
So, what does the future of this collaboration looks like to you?
With India, I’m delighted and optimistic. Also, today’s 3rd India – EU Urban Forum shows great interest at all levels. It’s not just governments or the European Commission but cities which are interested, which is the key to success for me. If they are interested, we will find the way forward and deliver good results.
What has been your experience, and what is the key takeaway from today’s Urban Forum?
My key takeaway is that people are engaged and committed to finding solutions. There was a lot about sharing, what they do, and how they do it. I also talked to cities involved in our International Urban and Regional Cooperation program; they’re very excited about it and happy to continue it. Now we apply it also at the regional level because we want to place urban authorities in the broader regional territorial development. There are also outstanding projects in India which do the same. I was impressed. I am very optimistic about the EU-India Partnership on urban matters.
My last question is, what is your message for urban local and sub-regional governments that are making efforts and shifting their way of going about this urban development paradigm?
Our message is, let’s do it together. There are important concepts, solutions and tools available, so let’s work together. We are here to cooperate; for me, cooperation is the key to success. We need to involve local governments. We need to listen to them and then provide them with the necessary tools to design their strategies, work with people and have projects which make a difference. In Commission, we are committed to this partnership principle. It’s embedded in our regulatory framework, and we want to develop more of these networks between partners. So, we need to relate our concepts to concrete happenings on the ground, and this is where I believe our urban local authorities have an important word to say.